Zimmerman aftermath

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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:23 pm

Hunger I understand, wearing 3 brand new hats at one time while balancing 8 pairs of new shoes I do not.

It's the opportunists that I have the problem with. All you need is one respected voice or some vapid celeb (Kanye) to come in and give people a reason to feel entitled to do wrong and claim it as fair and it's all fairplay.

There are plenty of poor people, people who are products of neglect or a bad environment that don't lie, cheat and steal based on those issues. People that don't feel like they are free to take their pain and frustration out on others. Those are the ones who deserve our help and our understanding. We provide too much for the criminal opportunist element, we give them too much assistance and we let them off the hook for things the rest of society aren't allowed to do.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by RobotJerk » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:11 am

1) Way to generalize about black people. I hope you don't really think the people in those pictures completely represent an accurate representation of all of black America.

2) Just because we passed some civil rights laws in the 1960s doesn't mean discrimination automatically stopped. Poverty and discrimination have gone down (and so has crime, by the way), but enough to make everyone equal. Black people still get locked up longer for lesser crimes, live shorter lives, and on average have less access to educational opportunities and jobs. All the factories and good jobs that pay good wages moved away from the places most black people live. These are statistical facts.

3) I was a little more sympathetic to believing Zimmerman's side of the story before I heard about him THREATENING HIS WIFE AND FATHER-IN-LAW WITH A GUN.

4) You have a much different definition of power than I do.
Yes, kids want to be like celebrities, but who do you think actually wields more power...the entertainment industry or these people: http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/ ? (True, not everyone of the country's 400 richest people are white...some are Asian). Who is a bigger influence...the black guy whose music you listen to, or the white guy who can close the factory where your mom works or that sets the prices for everything you buy? Don't be fooled by the representation black people have in the upper echelons of the entertainment industry into thinking that applies to the aggregate economy or society as a whole.

5) If you have to resort to using sources like racist tabloids such as American Free Press, internet message boards, and newspaper comment sections to make your point, the point might not have been worth making. You might want to consider your information sources before drawing conclusions next time.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:58 pm

1.) Looks like you've decided to take Zytorg's old straw man and prop it up and use it yourself. I never was talking about "all black people in America", I was specifically referencing Katrina and Kanye West's comments. He said "George Bush doesn't care about black people" in reference to the "victims" of Katrina. The part he left out was the part about the looters and how the majority of the crimes involved black people as the perps. My comments weren't on Black America, it was on one-sided thinking.

2.) Crime and unemployment are both actually up where I live, so your argument is invalid.

3.) That doesn't mean he's guilty of another crime. Way to use the old noodle to think that one through.

4.) Why would the people I referenced efven care about the factory or its owner? They have plans to be a rapper or NBA star. Plus, you think money is the only way to get power? Take a look at what guys like Jim Jones or Charles Manson was able to do (just to name a few).

5.) Ditto. The same could be said for politifact, it certainly skews things in your directions (fact).
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:17 pm

hey guys, sorry to interupt, but has anyone seen my old strawman? I can't seem to find him....? :?
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by RobotJerk » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:28 am

die wrote:1.) Looks like you've decided to take Zytorg's old straw man and prop it up and use it yourself. I never was talking about "all black people in America", I was specifically referencing Katrina and Kanye West's comments. He said "George Bush doesn't care about black people" in reference to the "victims" of Katrina. The part he left out was the part about the looters and how the majority of the crimes involved black people as the perps. My comments weren't on Black America, it was on one-sided thinking.

2.) Crime and unemployment are both actually up where I live, so your argument is invalid.

3.) That doesn't mean he's guilty of another crime. Way to use the old noodle to think that one through.

4.) Why would the people I referenced efven care about the factory or its owner? They have plans to be a rapper or NBA star. Plus, you think money is the only way to get power? Take a look at what guys like Jim Jones or Charles Manson was able to do (just to name a few).

5.) Ditto. The same could be said for politifact, it certainly skews things in your directions (fact).

This argument is becoming surreal. It's like I'm discussing aggregate sociological data and you're bringing up that time a black guy robbed your uncle.

*sigh*

Okay, let's get started:

1) If that was your point, then there was still no reason to draw conclusions based on those pictures. But, regardless, the fact there was looting mostly by black people in an area predominantly populated by black people doesn't excuse how the federal government decided to ignore the situation, or have anything to do with whether Kanye West was right or not. There were plenty of victims of Katrina who were NOT looters. The fact there were black looters doesn't make other black people not victims of Katrina or of the government's bungled response.

2) Both are up where you live...since the 1960s? Really? I'm going to need some supporting evidence.
Regardless, since I was talking about the United States as a whole, only considering your local area is irrelevant.

3) Just like Trayvon Martin's marijuana use doesn't make him guilty of attacking Zimmerman. But Zimmerman did have a history of anger issues. I'm having an easier time believing a guy with anger issues and a gun followed a black kid and provoked him than I am Trayvon Martin randomly decided to attack a guy who was just watching out for his neighborhood. Can't say either for sure with certainty, but neither can you.

4) First of all, neither Jim Jones nor Charles Manson (two white guys, by the way, if you care to remember my point was that white people have most of the power) had much power for very long.
Second, you missed the point of my example. Black people simply do not have the proportional societal power than white people do. Partly because they are only 12.6% of the population and whites are 72.4%, partly because white people got a 350 year head start on accumulating wealth and influence (this is a big one), partly because white people still tend to stereotype them (black people also stereotype black people, but they're not the ones doing most of the hiring), and they have less access to education (58% live in urban areas and urban schools are the worst) and jobs (job creation tends to happen places besides urban areas, where 58% of them live).

5) You may not agree with how they rate things on their imaginary scale, but their supporting information is pretty accurate.
Therefore, no, a racist tabloid is not the same thing as Politifact. Jesus Christ.




The stand your ground law isn't exactly being applied equally. I'm not sure if its because of race or because of how the law was written, but this is pretty fucked up.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... er-ground/

She is getting a retrial, but because of a technicality with the jury directions, not because her defense was reconsidered.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:10 pm

This argument is becoming surreal. It's like I'm discussing aggregate sociological data and you're bringing up that time a black guy robbed your uncle.
And I feel like I'm discussing a subject with a boy-in-a-bubble who's going to always drop one of those "statisticly speaking, flying is the safest form of travel" statements once a post...

I'm just the guy who comes in to remind you that more people walk away from car crashes than plane crashes.

1) If that was your point, then there was still no reason to draw conclusions based on those pictures. But, regardless, the fact there was looting mostly by black people in an area predominantly populated by black people doesn't excuse how the federal government decided to ignore the situation, or have anything to do with whether Kanye West was right or not. There were plenty of victims of Katrina who were NOT looters. The fact there were black looters doesn't make other black people not victims of Katrina or of the government's bungled response.
I'm not sure if you know this but New Orleans was hell at that point. You do know that people were getting shot and killed...people were robbing.... it was out-of-control. If you send in help, who's going to protect those people who are trying to help? What's going to stop an angry mob from just bumrushing the aid and taking everything? Once you send in soldiers, it'll look like a race issue. This was a lose/lose situation for Bush. Again (since you missed it, again), my point is that Kanye West took this time to give an ignorant outsider's view of the situation. That was my point entirely there. It's the same thing that happens with shit like the Zimmerman trial, black celebs are allowed to say whatever misguided thing they want and people either side with them or just excuse them because that's the politically correct thing to do.
2) Both are up where you live...since the 1960s? Really? I'm going to need some supporting evidence.
Regardless, since I was talking about the United States as a whole, only considering your local area is irrelevant.
This is where you truly fail... The 1960's??? Who gives a fuck about the 1960's? :lol:

None of us were even born then.

I guess there was way technically more crime back when Cavemen were hitting Cavewomen over the head and just "taking the pussy" or when T-rex was murdering velicioraptors, so fuck it, you make a valid point.

You're the stats guy..... you're going to find a way to say things are better because there's a rich community on the warm side of Alaska where there's barely any crime. It's irrelevant to me to concern myself with a stat that doesn't represent what I see with my own eyes.
3) Just like Trayvon Martin's marijuana use doesn't make him guilty of attacking Zimmerman. But Zimmerman did have a history of anger issues. I'm having an easier time believing a guy with anger issues and a gun followed a black kid and provoked him than I am Trayvon Martin randomly decided to attack a guy who was just watching out for his neighborhood. Can't say either for sure with certainty, but neither can you.

Here's the part you missed..... The media was only showing pics of Martin from years ago, that's the difference :wink: and you also left out the parts about the family that Zimmerman had saved in a wreck and the homeless black man Zimmerman stood up for, against serious odds I might add. As for the whole "can't say either with certainty" thing, that's an lol moment coming from you... in this very thread your statements clearly show you side with Martin already.

I do believe I'm the one who didn't "say either with certainty". :wink:

4) First of all, neither Jim Jones nor Charles Manson (two white guys, by the way, if you care to remember my point was that white people have most of the power) had much power for very long.
Second, you missed the point of my example. Black people simply do not have the proportional societal power than white people do. Partly because they are only 12.6% of the population and whites are 72.4%, partly because white people got a 350 year head start on accumulating wealth and influence (this is a big one), partly because white people still tend to stereotype them (black people also stereotype black people, but they're not the ones doing most of the hiring), and they have less access to education (58% live in urban areas and urban schools are the worst) and jobs (job creation tends to happen places besides urban areas, where 58% of them live).


Charles Manson didn't "have power for long"? you sure? :lol:

I like how your stats don't include sports, music or movies :lol:

Black people continue to struggle to make it in the NBA, NFL and MLB? If they could just make some great strides in rap or R&B. If they only had their own television channel that could employ them! Since you love stats....the NBA in 2011 was composed of 83 percent non-white players, including 78 percent black, four percent Latino, and one percent Asian; 17 percent of the players were white.

It's not fair (based on your emphasis on stats) for the NBA to do that to white people! We need some organizations to help white people, we need to feel their pain! Please support the LBWP3PL. (The Larry Bird White Person 3-Pointer League)

"There's always an occasion for a Caucasian"

Besides that, do any of your stats include any of the government or charity/nonprofit assistance provided to help them catch up on that "350 year head start"??? The assistance provided specifically for black people?

In your world all white people are Mr. Drummond and all black people are Arnold.

Maybe that's why you keep asking me what I'm talking 'bout?

5) You may not agree with how they rate things on their imaginary scale, but their supporting information is pretty accurate.
Therefore, no, a racist tabloid is not the same thing as Politifact. Jesus Christ.
And I guess somebody appointed you to decide what the lesser of 2 evils are?

ANYTHING that I read I'm skeptical about, I try to check into shit as much as possible if it's relevant or important, if not then I just don't give a fuck (see: The 1960's).
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:36 pm

so this is totally ok right? is this racist?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/09 ... ck-nation/


Well, this is not just a bit scary. Raising his fist in a black power salute during his swearing in, the newly elected mayor of Jackson, Mississippi was true to his character as a former leader of the black supremacy group, Republic of New Afrika. The group is dedicated to transforming five of the Southern states into an independent socialist black nation. Jackson Mayor Chokwe Lumumba, born in Detroit as Edwin Finley Taliaferro, is a radical activist, and co-founder of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement. He’s, also, being praised by the Nation of Islam, who wrote in their publication, Final Call, that ‘the seeds of a black nation are already taking root in Mississippi.’



According to WND,

Voters in Jackson, Miss., a mid-sized city in the heart of the Deep South, have picked a Democrat as their mayor. What’s different about this individual is that he is a former leader of the Republic of New Afrika, a group dedicated to creating an independent black nation out of five southern states.

Now leading the city of about 175,000 is Chokwe Lumumba – who has a long history of radical activism and whose plans for the largest city in Mississippi could be called “revolutionary.”

A co-founder of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, which promotes black “self-determination,” Lumumba was sworn in on July 1, after winning 86 percent of the vote in the general election.

He had won the Democrat nomination with 54 percent of the vote.

Despite what could be considered an overpowering victory, Jackson’s business owners are extremely concerned with Lumumba’s proposals for the city.

One of Lumumba’s primary goals as mayor of Jackson is to create a “solidarity economy” in the city. According to a report published by the Belfast Telegraph, a solidarity economy is an “umbrella term used to describe a wide variety of alternative economic activities, including worker-owned co-operatives, co-operative banks, peer lending, community land trusts, participatory budgeting and fair trade.”

Lumumba also has earned the highest praise from the Final Call, the official publication of the Nation of Islam, which called his electoral victory one of the “most important progressive political victories on a long list of important political leaders.”

Further in the article, Final Call noted that: “the seeds of a ‘Black Nation’ have already taken root in the state where Mr. Lumumba is mayor of the capital city.”

Lumumba discussed this idea of a “Black Nation” forming in Mississippi with Final Call and what can be done to bring it to life.

“Some of (the counties) are as much as 80 percent black. So, demographically we have a solid, a non-self-governing territory. What we need to do in that area – and actually what our people have begun to do, Mississippi has more black elected officials than any state in the United States – and if we can now give that some political content, some direction in terms of what we want to do in terms of taking these electoral victories, these economic victories and teach the message that we know from long ago, of self-determination, of self-governance, self-economic development,” Lumumba stated.

In addition, he calls this area of Mississippi the “Kush District,” and he raised his fist in a black power salute at the ceremony where he was sworn in as mayor.
The Jackson-Kush District … then and now, according to Chokwe Lumumba. by Donna Ladd
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"lets just have black nations inside the usa...this is not racist at all...and anyone who says it is, is in fact the racist.....Robo please tabulate statistics to back me up on this!"


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^is this ok?
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:23 pm

Counter-point will be stats on small number of black mayors there are in America.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:28 pm

my counter to his counter will be a pie chart displaying black mayors eaten by T-rex's and Velociraptors since the 1860's in the north-west territories.

In all honesty, think about if a leader from the KKK (shout out to david duke roflz) was to actually win and throw up the hand sign and start talking the same way this guy did. Hell would break loose. riots would occur. the cities would burn.

this is my point. it is not racist for the black people to be racist. fair?

and anyway....if the Republic of New Afrika actaully happens let us hope it doesnt go bankrupt in 50 years like the black liberals did to Detriot. (is what I just said racist or a fact?)

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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by RobotJerk » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:09 am

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While the details of the Zimmerman/Martin case are certainly not certainties, the attempts to use anecdotal evidence, racial stereotypes, and academically inadmissible sources on this thread to justify ongoing and quantifiable injustices is incomprehensible. I no longer have any interest in participating in this conversation. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your souls.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:10 pm

hey buddy hang on before you go one sec,

Would you have a problem with a KKK member being elected to public office and saying that he was going to make a "seperate white nation" inside this nation and then throw up the KKK's hand salute?

please answer....please:


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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:33 pm

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Hmmmmm.... so let's see.....

The guy that claims Martin was innocent earlier in this thread is now talking about evidence and stereotypes?

and as for "academically inadmissible sources"..... Have you even noticed any of the bullshit passed off as academics these days :lol:

And just for the record, I'm guessing that Politifact is an academically sound source even though you admit they abuse the sketchy rating system they created?

I mean, not that you'd even be able to accept any actual truth anyways...I mean I did post the actual 911 call from Zimmerman in this thread and you still continued on with your propaganda.


If you have a spin for the Chokwe Lumumba thing, trust me, I'm all ears for that. If there's any sources besides Politifact that you will actually accept, that is.


Your post was simply the classic ELABORATE TAP OUT.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:43 pm

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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by die » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:19 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman- ... ories.html

Maybe he just misses being in the news?

what a dumbass.
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Re: Zimmerman aftermath

Post by Zytorg777 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:57 pm

That is not zimmerman it is a clone.
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