DUNK'D

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die
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Post by die » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:34 pm

Hell Shaq said in an interview last year he was a top 10 player of all time,you obviously just don't like him for some reason.Like I said,I don't care for Kobe (he's a Laker for starters),but no way could I say he's over rated,thats insane.
Well that settles it then, if Shaq said it, it is truth!!!! :lol:

Yes, I need the input from an 8 foot tall retarded Yeti before I can draw my own conclusions. So you still don't think AI is overrated, ok, let me put this into perspective for you....

You are posting weak pictures of him dribbling in a thread about dunks.


Now, please explain to me how that is not overrating somebody and please point me to pics of him dunking on people. /sure, the NBA is not all about dunks, but this thread is.

And as far as all time?For his size and position,I say top 10,easy.
Why don't we make it even easier for you and say "for players with corn rows and really long armbands, I'd say he's in the top 8 players" does that help your argument?

Like I've tried to explain to you before, AI is overrated. He has come into the NBA at a time period when the best ballers have retired or should have retired already. Right now, there are alot of guys "trying" to make a name for themselves.You just can not accept any of this because you are in love with him and want to adopt kids with him.
I don't think he's over-rated. I just tire of seeing him advertised constantly.

Yes, add "over-marketed" to the list as well. :lol:
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RockHard
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Post by RockHard » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:42 pm

Well that settles it then, if Shaq said it, it is truth!!!!
Quite possibly the most dominate player ever,yes I believe his opinion should hold some weight.
Yes, I need the input from an 8 foot tall retarded Yeti before I can draw my own conclusions. So you still don't think AI is overrated, ok, let me put this into perspective for you....
That yeti knows more about basketball than you or me could ever hope to know.

And let me put it into perspective for you,have you ever heard any sportscaster,sports writer,player,etc. ever say he was over rated?No.

But Die said he is,so I guess he sucks,please.You haven't said a single damn thing on WHY he's over rated.Why because he can't dunk like Vince Carter?He's fucking 6 foot!!Most people at 6 foot cant dunk at all.
He has come into the NBA at a time period when the best ballers have retired or should have retired already.
He came into the NBA at a time where we are probably seeing the best ballers EVER.

MJ
Garnett
Duncan
T-Mac
Kobe
Shaq
Baron Davis
Paul Pierce
Payton
Malone
Ray Allen
Nowitzki
Kidd

I mean sweet christ,he came in when there were no good ballers?!?!?! :lmao:

Whatever man,all you have proved is that you know jack shit about the NBA.
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die
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Post by die » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:49 pm

Quite possibly the most dominate player ever,yes I believe his opinion should hold some weight.
Why ? because he's big as hell?

Shaq also tells you how to pronounce "caramel", right? Well, he is a frickkin genius then.

That yeti knows more about basketball than you or me could ever hope to know.
Good, maybe I'll ask him for some pointers on free throws & 3-pointers.

And let me put it into perspective for you,have you ever heard any sportscaster,sports writer,player,etc. ever say he was over rated?No.

http://www.shiftyeye.com/TopFive.asp?TOP_FIVE_ID=19

How about Sports Illustrated?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... 5/mailbag/



how about CBS sports?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/messages/mess ... 069-jman57


http://www.alleyoop.com/ftb/011602.htm
The other three players voted in all deserve to be on the team, though none should be starting. I'll deal with Allen Iverson first, since he's probably the most questionable of the three. Iverson right now has a PER of 19.51, 34th in the league (this includes last night, by the way). That puts him in marginal All-Star territory. Two things, in my mind, put him over the top. First, he's a good defensive player. Second, he shot terribly the first two weeks he was back, killing his percentage stats. I think Iverson's overrated to be honest, but I also think he's better than he showed those first couple weeks, and will keep proving it the rest of the season. I'd much rather see Iverson on the team than whatever half-good Eastern "All-Star" would take his spot instead.
http://www.blackvoices.com/sports/01052 ... n-krt.html
Iverson, the most overrated MVP in recent memory (remember the Sixers were a respectable 6-5 without him because of assorted injuries during the regular season), still doesn’t appear to realize that many young people -- most of whom are black -- live vicariously through the spindly guard’s limited successes, well-documented failures, in-your-face street style, sophomoric gangsta songs and abrasive persona. Often to their detriment.
I hope that "puts things in perspective" for you, although I'm sure your love for "Teh Answer" won't allow for common sense.

I'm beginning to think this post might deserve a spot in the "PWNED" section :lol:
But Die said he is,so I guess he sucks,please.You haven't said a single damn thing on WHY he's over rated.Why because he can't dunk like Vince Carter?He's fucking 6 foot!!Most people at 6 foot cant dunk at all.
Sure I have, you're just not smart enough to grasp what I'm saying. You yourself are overrating him by praising him in a thread about dunks. Is that not enough for you? Well, follow the links I provided for you, you know the ones with insight from well known sporting news :)


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and just for good measure.....
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:lol:

Now, please tell me why you are so compelled to suck on Iverson's nuts in a thread about dunks?

Could it possibly be that you are overrating him or is it just cockworship++ ?

He came into the NBA at a time where we are probably seeing the best ballers EVER.

MJ
Garnett
Duncan
T-Mac
Kobe
Shaq
Baron Davis
Paul Pierce
Payton
Malone
Ray Allen
Nowitzki
Kidd

Perhaps you missed the part where I said:

He has come into the NBA at a time period when the best ballers have retired or should have retired already.

Guys like MJ and Karl Malone have been past their prime for quite some time, the other guys that you mention have yet to establish themselves on the level of guys like...

Dr. J
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Dominique Wilkins
Jerry West
John Stockton
Oscar Robertson
Dennis Rodman
Kareem Abdul Jabar
Pistol Pete
Wilt Chamberlain
Isiah Thomas
Scottie Pippen
Joe Dumars
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
James Worthy

I'm not just talking shitty ball hogs either. I'm talking about people who made the teams that they played for become something legendary.


If you want to talk "handles", AI don't got shit on guys like Pistol Pete and Magic. If you really knew anything about basketball, you'd know this already.

I mean sweet christ,he came in when there were no good ballers?!?!?!

Whatever man,all you have proved is that you know jack shit about the NBA.
Please.

I was watching NBA before you could spell NBA. All I really proved is that you don't know shit about the NBA.... present day NBA or NBA history. So, you continue to hate, and I'll continue to educate.
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RockHard
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Post by RockHard » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:08 pm

K,at least you provided some links,thats all I asked for.

But like I done said a thousand times,it was just a clip I had on my PC I thought I would share.

I would like to hear why YOU think he's over rated.Most people hate him due to his off the court antics,can't blame them I guess.I really don't give a shit what he does off the court,I watch him play basketball,not life.
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Post by RockHard » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:26 pm

Well upon further inspection of those articles...
4. Allen Iverson
The Answer? Not if the question is "Hey Allen, can I see the ball for a sec?"
When the hell was the wrote?AI's days of ball hogging are LONG past,his career assist average is 6 per game,far from being a ball hog,and he's also a shooting guard,not a point guard.

And the poll at CBS...I voted Lebron...the results are...

Kobe 32
T-Mac 39
Shaq 30
AI 30
Carmello 28
Lebron 44
Baron 20
Tim Duncan 11

So according to that,people think that AI is about average when it comes to the super stars.

And the Sports Illustrated...
As for being more popular than good: No, I don't buy that. He is good. Very, very good.
Iverson is a great player, a gutsy player and a great draw.
So although the guy feels Iverson takes some bad shots,he still thinks he is a great player.At 6 foot he also acknowledges that these shots are harder for him to get off,and everyone knows that the 76ers have jackshit for scoring aside from AI & Glenn Robinson (and at the time this was written it was Van Horn who is a fuckin worthless pile of dung in the clutch) so I mean when the load is all on you of course your gonna take some bad shots and when you do there gonna be magnified 10x more because your the person thats supposed to be the savior of the team.

Look at all the other great players,they have an awesome supporting cast to go around them.Kobe has Shaq,Garnett has Sprewell,Duncan had Robinson,but you could now sub in Manu.Nowitzki has Nash, and so on and so on.People like Iverson,Pierce,T-Mac,etc. are basically the only star on their team which makes it harder for them to do good night in and night out like the rest of them.

So yea,most of those links were whack...and Spudd Webb is like a freak of nature,he is the exception,no doubt.
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die
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Post by die » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:29 pm

Well, I'll be the first to admit that the guy is annoying off the court. That makes it really hard for anybody to comment just on his ball skills alone. He's not very smart with what he says in interviews and the impression that he gives. The "thug" gimmick that he tries to pull off is laughable to most. That does hurt him to some extent for several reasons:

1- Smaller guys trying to act 10 feet tall just doesn't sell in B-ball. Charles Barkley and Dennis Rodman could pull it off because they are big aggressive guys & could get in people's faces. Basically, AI comes across as the little dog who barks too much. We're talking about people who dunk the fuck on people's grills for a living. Who wants to see a mini-me Rodman?

2- They try to push AI so much commercially and put him on the same media level of guys like Jordan, Kobe & Shaq, but AI doesn't have the character & charm of guys like Shaq and MJ.

Now, that's just a few of the reasons why his merchandising of himself gets on people's nerves. Now, as far as basketball and actual playing go, he is a great baller. I do however agree that he is overrated due to the fact that he could take better shots alot of the time and he is not the team player that he should be. I think it is accurate to say that giving him MVP status makes alot of people roll their eyes as the Sixers were doing fine without him at that time & he's all about himself when he gets the ball. That is why I don't consider him not yet worthy to be considered one of the best of all times. He has yet to contribute to the team overall in ways that the greats that I mentioned have done.
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Post by RockHard » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:15 am

Meh,no way were we better off before he got there...he gets us to the playoffs every year and to the Finals a few years ago,if he could get a guy like Shaq or another supporting star you would see him be just as successful as Kobe or any other big star.
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die
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Post by die » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:18 pm

"we"? :shock:


"us"? :shock:



this conversation just got stranger....




I never said that they were "better off" before he got there, I said "the Sixers were doing fine without him at that time". Which means that without Iverson (when he was injured), the team didn't suffer like a team that loses an MVP would normally suffer.

if he could get a guy like Shaq or another supporting star you would see him be just as successful as Kobe or any other big star.
You mean somebody to make him look better, right?

I think it's up to AI to be a team player and make somebody else look good. That comes from being smart on the court and making smart passes. It's a 2-way street.
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Post by SoVi3t » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:46 pm

Just to add something, but doesn't Shaq pretty much suck, outside of his marketing gimmick name and shit?

Sure, he's a decent player and all, but he throws bricks like he's mackdogg or something.

And I still say Vince Carter > Iverson, as long as Vince can stay NOT injured.
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Post by $nave » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:12 pm

$$ goes old-school...

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die
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Post by die » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:35 pm

but...but...but...

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:lol:

Sorry, I couldn't resist :P
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Post by $nave » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:43 pm

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AI: I luv some me!!!
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Post by RockHard » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:45 pm

I think it's up to AI to be a team player and make somebody else look good.
And he's done this.Take a look at Eric Snow,he was very sub par until him and Iverson really hooked up and started playing together.Snow went from being a sub par PG to one of the best in the league,and I believe Iverson has had some hand in his development as a player and vice versa,I think Snow has taught Iverson to pass more and be a better team player.

And Soviet,I think you should stick to Hockey...
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die
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Post by die » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:17 pm

And Soviet,I think you should stick to Hockey...

:lol:
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Post by n-MITY » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:02 pm

RockHard wrote:And Soviet,I think you should stick to Hockey...
Real.

Shaq's shots may have been off since little before his injury, but the Lakers without him are teh suck. People try arguing Kobe could pull Shaq's weight, but he really can't. A dominant center is definitely a key to winning. You pull down rebounds, you put in tips/missed shots, you're doing the job well. He does this, whether he's being lazy or not. Christ, he was taking double(and triple)-doubles throughout the start of this season. Shaq wins games (when he is in the mood to simply get off his ass).

As for the AI argument...

Aside from his merchandising spree, I don't have a problem with him. He's no dunker, but he's been putting up his numbers for points and assists for a while now. And yes, he does need a solid supporting member to make him play better. That goes without saying for pretty much everybody, though. Look at the Lakers last year...Shaq went out with his toe/calf injuries early on and it was up to Kobe to be the absolute stand-out. He was the stand-out, but they still lost tons of games. They were fighting vigorously to reach .500 to make the playoffs within a few weeks before playoffs (when Shaq finally returned). Kobe did his job (just as AI does), but often it just wasn't enough. They beat the Rockets in "Yao vs. Shaq 2" without Shaq, but it was in double-overtime. They went on the next night to lose because of being so tired. Why? Because they were all trying to compensate for Shaq. If AI is ever handed a key center as a teammate (even like Dikembe), the Sixers will roll. Trust me.

This is why I don't believe AI (or Shaq) is overrated.
"I don't want to completely destroy you, I hope that through our arguments you become smarter and/or more like myself."--die
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