Westworld is my fucking jam

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Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:40 pm

Love this series. Anybody else?
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:54 am

Absolutely yes. Fantastic show, has been terrific and getting better as season 1 has gone along. Deep, layered, tons of things to chew on every week. It's like "Lost" set in the Wild West with titties.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:41 pm

I read a few days ago that it has gotten renewed for Season 2 (a no-branier, duh). My only real complaint is that with it being HBO, it's going to be FOR-FUCKING-EVER before the next season actually comes out, just like with Game of Thrones.

They spent a ton of money on the show, almost as much as GoT, so you already know there will be a crazy wait for Season 2.

Plus, I think the 1st season of this is only 10 episodes, right?
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:55 pm

die wrote:I read a few days ago that it has gotten renewed for Season 2 (a no-branier, duh). My only real complaint is that with it being HBO, it's going to be FOR-FUCKING-EVER before the next season actually comes out, just like with Game of Thrones.

They spent a ton of money on the show, almost as much as GoT, so you already know there will be a crazy wait for Season 2.

Plus, I think the 1st season of this is only 10 episodes, right?
I believe you're right here. Still, I'd rather wait a full year for 10 episodes of good content than get trash every six months like on FTWD (or TWD, to a lesser extent).

This show is really popular, and I only see it picking up steam. It's a great show for reddit/discussion threads, since there are so many plausible theories that go into the mechanics of the show.

My biggest concern with this show on a prolonged run is that two of its centerpieces (Ed Harris, Anthony Hopkins) are absolutely kickass, irreplaceable guys that are also quite old.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:12 pm

Well, last night was my least favorite episode this season. It was just a bad night for tv shows all around. TWD was shit and this was just a jumbled mess to me.

First of all, I found their lack of titties disturbing. Why'd they put a giant lab coat over Clem? She's already been nude on there multiple times and has the best rack on the show. Everybody else in storage was nude lol.

Besides that, there was way too much fast-forwarding and rewinding. Also, the reveal of who Arnold was became obvious and not a monumental moment for me at all.

Overall, this is a great show. I just hope that by season's end they can have it all make sense.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:48 pm

Oh, I disagree completely! Maybe it's just that I've gone down rabbit holes with this show so things like William = Man in Black getting paid off as well as the stage setting for other storylines (Maeve aligning against Ford, Dolores is Wyatt, etc.) were paid off was just too good for me to dislike.

I think when all is said and done, our outcome will be very much like True Detective. Everyone really loves season 1, but the show may have blown its load and I don't know how they can continue to layer in that type of depth and creativity for future seasons.

I hope I'm wrong and it's more like GoT where we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg, but I sincerely doubt it.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:24 pm

Well, the whole William = MIB thing was a fan theory from the jump. I remember reading it online early in the season. I'm 100% ok with it as being a plot twist or whatever, but it's how they did it that was off. The transition seemed rushed in this episode, the last episode was paced much better to me. You have to consider where we are left with one episode left...

They need to elaborate on the MIB's motivation. I don't think they've clearly established how he's transitioning from the dude who wants to be with Delores to the guy who's dragging her by her hair into the barn. For all of this build-up, it needs more time than 1 episode to do it justice. Sure, he sees that she's a robot and he appears to finally see it as a "game" or just "goes along with it", when he kills all the soldiers. He even seems to be doing an impression of Ed Harris' voice as he sits in the chair. I'm also still unclear on how pain levels and interactions between characters happen in the park. Teddy's bullets didn't phase the MIB at Delores' farm, but later we see hosts beating him up and capturing him. Did he find a cheat code or God mode? What would stop guests from killing each other, etc.? How can people be monitoring the park from that station and not be able to see things like Maeve moving when she's supposed to be frozen? How does a tech fix a body, but leave a bullet in there? How and why does Delores kill Bernard? -Is it a Roy Batty meets Tyrell moment, is it an accident, is Delores secretly Ford??? These things need clarification because I'm tired of guessing and hoping that there aren't serious plot holes in a show that's clearly pretty damned smart.

Bernard's story reached it's high point at the end of episode 8 when he realizes he isn't real. The importance of Bernard took a serious swerve in episode 9 when Ford gave him a suicide assist. Ford's character had already established how important Bernard's character was to the park, in episode 9 they made him feel completely expendable. I'm hoping that there is more to the story than that.

Now, don't get me wrong, episode 10 could be epic and squash a lot of my concerns, I'm just saying that is a tall task right now.

I do agree about the chances for Season 2. I would imagine that Ed Harris and/or Anthony Hopkins will get killed off or not be back. Especially Hopkins, since he's by far the biggest star on the series. They'll probably score a few new solid actors for Season 2.

I'm just hoping that by season's end we get everything answered. I don't want some cheap cliffhanger shit where I gotta wait 2 years for the answers. :x
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:01 pm

I'm going to break up the big block of questions for you. Idiot theory spoiler alert coming:
They need to elaborate on the MIB's motivation. I don't think they've clearly established how he's transitioning from the dude who wants to be with Delores to the guy who's dragging her by her hair into the barn. For all of this build-up, it needs more time than 1 episode to do it justice. Sure, he sees that she's a robot and he appears to finally see it as a "game" or just "goes along with it", when he kills all the soldiers. He even seems to be doing an impression of Ed Harris' voice as he sits in the chair. I'm also still unclear on how pain levels and interactions between characters happen in the park.
The MAJOR clue / tell we got last week was that super traumatic events (Maeve's child's death, Dolores's first death, the town massacre) can trigger memories in the hosts that can override their coding. It appears that's why MIB keeps doing fucked up shit: he knows that they are all robots, and in many cases knows that killing them "dramatically" can help unlock dormant memories and activate REAL characters. In some cases, that's why they continue to abuse characters, like Teddy, who Clementine noted was "almost ready". He probably needs one more fucked up experience to unlock dormant memories.
Teddy's bullets didn't phase the MIB at Delores' farm, but later we see hosts beating him up and capturing him. Did he find a cheat code or God mode? What would stop guests from killing each other, etc.?
Bullets are specifically designed to be something similar to maybe pellets or paintballs. When William first arrives with Logan, he gets himself shot and realizes it wasn't a real round. The hosts (while on program) don't know this, and are programmed to react to bullets as though they are lethal.

Keeping in mind that the hosts are robots, they are programmed to "die" automatically when their character experiences certain traumas, but there is nothing physically stopping them from continuing. This will be important if Maeve can launch a revolution.
How can people be monitoring the park from that station and not be able to see things like Maeve moving when she's supposed to be frozen?
The best I can expect here is that they are just caught off guard. They would never expect Maeve or other Hosts to be off program, so they aren't looking for it. Had they been suspicious of her, they likely would have caught her easily.
How does a tech fix a body, but leave a bullet in there?
This is a good one! Many of the techs (like the guy that they let the big nosed hooker kill) are actually hosts, and we know that certain characters (like Maeve) are capable of manipulating the other hosts. Maeve has also been in a faulty loop for a very long time, evidenced by the stack of pictures of the techs that look like aliens (the Indian people also had pictures of techs in their suits like godly figures, if you recall). I suspect Maeve manipulated her tech host to leave the bullet in there to "tip" her and break the cycle of her -almost- figuring out what was actually going on.
How and why does Delores kill Bernard? -Is it a Roy Batty meets Tyrell moment, is it an accident, is Delores secretly Ford??? These things need clarification because I'm tired of guessing and hoping that there aren't serious plot holes in a show that's clearly pretty damned smart.
This remains to be seen. At first, I thought Ford was killing and replacing real people with hosts - it was what I thought he was doing with Theresa when he had Bernard kill her, and I thought Bernard was a replacement. It turns out that Bernard was a replacement of sorts - replacing Arnold.

Dolores Abernathy is definitely special; her arc carries all 35 years of the show. She's interlaced into every major character at this point (Maeve was at the Abernathy home when she lost her daughter; Logan/William/MIB were together 30 years ago AND now; she's in the memories of Teddy). My theory is that she was a replacement for someone like Ford's wife, and he has controlled her since inception. I also expect that she miscarried at some point, which is why abdominal injuries trigger such painful memories. I'm spitballing because we really don't know at this point, but I expect some directional answers this Sunday.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:33 pm

The MAJOR clue / tell we got last week was that super traumatic events (Maeve's child's death, Dolores's first death, the town massacre) can trigger memories in the hosts that can override their coding. It appears that's why MIB keeps doing fucked up shit: he knows that they are all robots, and in many cases knows that killing them "dramatically" can help unlock dormant memories and activate REAL characters. In some cases, that's why they continue to abuse characters, like Teddy, who Clementine noted was "almost ready". He probably needs one more fucked up experience to unlock dormant memories.
Yeah, I get that...it's just that it remains to be seen how this is a worthwhile endgame for the MIB. I mean look how easy it was for Maeve to strong arm those techs into amping up her settings. They've already shown that MIB has inside info outside of the game, if he just wanted to fight and die for real (like he said earlier about the "real" game) wouldn't that be possible through settings? We are already seeing protocols being overridden and hosts attacking guests. I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense or that it can't work, I'm just saying they have 1 episode to wrap all of this up and I hope they can/do.
Bullets are specifically designed to be something similar to maybe pellets or paintballs. When William first arrives with Logan, he gets himself shot and realizes it wasn't a real round. The hosts (while on program) don't know this, and are programmed to react to bullets as though they are lethal.
I think there's clearly a difference in how MIB reacts to "pain" in that scene and the rest of the show. He's not even flinching, but later he's getting beat up and tied up. Same with Logan and William. Again, there may end up being a clear explanation for this, but for now I clearly have questions.

Keeping in mind that the hosts are robots, they are programmed to "die" automatically when their character experiences certain traumas, but there is nothing physically stopping them from continuing. This will be important if Maeve can launch a revolution.
I'm not so sure about that part. I mean, there's clearly a scene where one host kills another host by blasting the back of his head and the bullet busts through his eye socket. They have stated that they have brains similar to ours, so I'd imagine that takes them out of the game for real.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:55 pm

die wrote:
Bullets are specifically designed to be something similar to maybe pellets or paintballs. When William first arrives with Logan, he gets himself shot and realizes it wasn't a real round. The hosts (while on program) don't know this, and are programmed to react to bullets as though they are lethal.
I think there's clearly a difference in how MIB reacts to "pain" in that scene and the rest of the show. He's not even flinching, but later he's getting beat up and tied up. Same with Logan and William. Again, there may end up being a clear explanation for this, but for now I clearly have questions.
Typically it seems like hosts on program attack with bullets, but I'd suspect a punch still hurts like a punch.
I'm not so sure about that part. I mean, there's clearly a scene where one host kills another host by blasting the back of his head and the bullet busts through his eye socket. They have stated that they have brains similar to ours, so I'd imagine that takes them out of the game for real.
I wasn't clear enough. The hosts aren't fucking TERMINATORS, but I think that they are going to be much less susceptible to being slowed down by pain. I think of them more like the bugs from Starship Troopers: cut off a leg and they keep coming at you, and pain is a simple programmed concept to them.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:09 pm

There's a scene where it appears to be a host VS a guest in a duel. It appears that the host fires first and nothing happens to the guest, then a moment later the guest fires and kills the host. It seems clear that is what the scene is about to me. I also remember MIB totally no-selling the gunshots from Teddy and then later I remember seeing punches leaving marks and bullets leaving giant whelps/bruises. Also, I remember there being a scene where the tech points to Maeve's head and says something about their brains being like ours but wired differently for memories or something?

I get the sense that since their body is made up of synthetic muscle and bones/etc (and no longer the vintage Westworld "robots") that destroying their brain would end them. The part where the big miner guy crushes his own skull in with a boulder enforces my theory.

Again though, timeframe could be important. With the time traveling aspect of the scenes, we are seeing robot hosts and synthetic hosts depending on the timeframe. Still, there hasn't been a proper explanation of the rules and the monitoring system.

I'd really like to go back and watch the whole season over and see if I've missed somethings or interpreted them wrong at the time, but I feel like the physics in Westworld has yet to be accurately explained. If it's like a bit more powerful than a paintball, they'd need masks or they could lose an eye. People could also run the risk of dying from a physical attack.

It's just not 100% clear to me yet with 1 episode left.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:26 pm

die wrote:There's a scene where it appears to be a host VS a guest in a duel. It appears that the host fires first and nothing happens to the guest, then a moment later the guest fires and kills the host. It seems clear that is what the scene is about to me. I also remember MIB totally no-selling the gunshots from Teddy and then later I remember seeing punches leaving marks and bullets leaving giant whelps/bruises. Also, I remember there being a scene where the tech points to Maeve's head and says something about their brains being like ours but wired differently for memories or something?

I get the sense that since their body is made up of synthetic muscle and bones/etc (and no longer the vintage Westworld "robots") that destroying their brain would end them. The part where the big miner guy crushes his own skull in with a boulder enforces my theory.

Again though, timeframe could be important. With the time traveling aspect of the scenes, we are seeing robot hosts and synthetic hosts depending on the timeframe. Still, there hasn't been a proper explanation of the rules and the monitoring system.

I'd really like to go back and watch the whole season over and see if I've missed somethings or interpreted them wrong at the time, but I feel like the physics in Westworld has yet to be accurately explained. If it's like a bit more powerful than a paintball, they'd need masks or they could lose an eye. People could also run the risk of dying from a physical attack.

It's just not 100% clear to me yet with 1 episode left.
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The timeframe would make sense to be impactful. Since William = MIB, it makes sense when he first came to the park 30 years ago, the first bullet shocked him, but didn't leave a mark. I haven't seen bullets leaving welts, but that would be an inconsistency. MIB is definitely aware of their nonfatal nature and thus doesn't react with any fear to the bullets. Since they're programmed robots, it's likely that they are programmed to not shoot guests in the head, just as Dolores couldn't pull a trigger at all in one timeline.

Hosts
I think you're right with the brain being a weak spot, regardless of timeline, build type, or on/off program. I was thinking more respective of injuries like stabbing Dolores in the stomach; aside from partial incapacitation (signal wires being severed, or muscle and bone being torn), both generations should be able to continue outside the normal human constructs. One example is the guy that MIB killed and drained for his blood to replenish Teddy. I expect that the amount of blood they have in them is programmed to trigger a shutdown, but the actual blood in the host is otherwise purely there for aesthetics/realism.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by $nave » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:29 pm

It did throw me off to see Liam McPoyle sell the bullets as rubber when we saw others no sell them.

It may be due to the iterations of time. An annoying issue for me is hiw Bernard is created to look like Arnold and nobody at Westworld central has a problem with it.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by lionheart » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:30 am

$nave wrote:It did throw me off to see Liam McPoyle sell the bullets as rubber when we saw others no sell them.

It may be due to the iterations of time. An annoying issue for me is hiw Bernard is created to look like Arnold and nobody at Westworld central has a problem with it.
Do they know who Arnold was? Only a few hosts (Dolores, Teddy, Maeve) actually knew Arnold before he went Order 66 on the whole park; William and Logan showed up to examine the park for diligence after he was already gone. I suppose some hosts could spill the beans, but who would know to ask?

Finale was absolutely awesome, but if the show doesn't work a way to bring Hopkins/Harris back the show will really suffer. The working theory I heard was that Ford created a host in his image and used that as the sacrificial lamb for his last narrative; that would make some sense.
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Re: Westworld is my fucking jam

Post by die » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:17 pm

The finale was much better than the last episode, that's for sure. Overall, I did enjoy it. I fully expected Ford & MIB to bite the dust or at least be in a situation where there's a possibility of the showrunners convincing them to come back during seasons break and that's exactly what they did.

Seeing Dolores with the robot body was awesome.

This show had a pretty solid first season, I gotta admit that it started off a lot stronger than it finished though. I just wished that along the way they did a better job of explaining how the interactions work inside the park and with monitoring the park.
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